This weekend was the annual RSGB Convention in Milton Keynes. For a summary of the event, see our RSGB Convention 2013 Report.
One of the highlights of the weekends agenda was a talk by two Ofcom representatives discussing the upcoming Amateur Radio Licence Review. As some of the changes being discussed are quite interesting, here’s a quick summary of the highlights:
The Outline
The overview into the upcoming public review was presented by Paul Jarvis and Ash Gohil from Ofcom. This was a pre-briefing ahead of a wider public consultation, so nothing set in stone – it was just an outline of what’s being considered. The consultation is expected to start in early 2014. Nonetheless, the audience response showed that there are some quite contentious issues, and it’s important for all amateurs to have their say once the consultation gets started.
Here’s a summary of the issues likely to be in the consultation:
Tidying the database
There are over 81,000 UK amateur licences allocated, but there are significantly less amateurs – A one-licence-per-amateur structure would simplify this.
Under discussion could be the revocation of a callsign once you have progressed to a higher level, or the us of a single licence / callsign that’s updated as you progress – possibly with an identifier at the end of a callsign to show Foundation, Intermediate or Full. Should any changes only apply to new licensees, or should existing amateurs also be affected by any proposed changes?
Progression
How can we encourage people to progress from Foundation? It seems that it was always intended that Foundation would be the first step in an amateur’s journey, but many have stuck with M3 or M6 without progressing to Intermediate. Although not directly stated, it seems that it’s viewed that the higher the progression level, the better the amateur, and a way needs to be found to encourage amateurs to climb. Clearly that’s not going to work for everyone, but some thought is being given to either the stick or the carrot approach to the licence levels. One proposal was that the Foundation licence time out, which is clearly going to be controversial.
| UPDATE: (Sept 2014): No changes re. Foundation licence progression were proposed in the final Ofcom consultation – There are no proposals to force amateurs to progress from Foundation. |
Secondary Identifiers
One of the more lively discussion topics. The current understanding by most amateurs is that an English operator traveling to a Scottish location would mean a change of callsign – from M0PSX to MM0PSX – However it seems that’s no how Ofcom’s legal people see it – and it’s the main station operating address that determines the secondary locator. The cry from the audience was clear – the prefix determines where you’re operating from. Up for discussion in the consultation then, is whether the licence wording needs to change to reflect established operating practices, or whether amateurs need to fall in line with Ofcom’s interpretation of the current licence!
Club and Special Event Licences
Another interesting one. A club licence is in effect a personal licence for use with a club. Should that person leave the club, then the licence is still theirs, and not the club’s. A written letter of surrender seems to be required, so that a new officer of the club can take over the club’s callsign. Another option for consideration would be find a way to make the club, or a position within the club be the entity that owns the licence, but remember that a Full licence holder needs to hold a club licence.
Similarly, a special event licence is a variation on a person’s Full licence, meaning that that person needs to be present and supervising throughout the special event. Should this be opened to being a club special event licence, and if so, what is the impact? Again – interesting points for discussion.
Other changes
A number of other issues were discussed, such as:
- Tidying up the definition for Maritime Mobile, to end confusion
- Airborne use (for controlling high altitude balloons)
- How to expire Repeater NoVs, where the repeater is not operating, tying up the allocation that could be used by others
- Rules around operating whilst waiting for a licence to be issued.
Additionally, it was noted that there’s currently no provision to re-validate a club licence every 5 years online.
Next steps
Nothing firm has been decided, and nothing can be changed without the public consultation, but it’s going to be helpful for all amateurs to start thinking about these issues now, and having our voices heard when the consultation starts early next year.
If you care about all or any of these issues, here’s what to do:
- Sign up to get updates on this from Ofcom: Amateur Radio Consultations
Discuss the proposals in the RSGB’s online forum: RSGB Litmus Test
You’re also welcome to have your say here – in the comments section below…
| UPDATE: The proposed changes to the licence were published in September 2014, with a public consultation running to the end of October 2014. See: Proposed Licence Changes (Sept 2104) |
(PS: Sorry about the lack of decent photos – I was not at a great angle for pics. If you took a better shot, please forward it!)
Thank you for reporting on the Ofcom Amateur Radio Licence Review, it is good to see a clear well written and laid out page which is easy to read and follow
Good to see the foundation licences may get a kick in the jacksy , there should be a 12 month limit on the foundation status. Then a twelve month revokation for not progressing, also a strict policing of power run by these stations, if they get away with running a linear amp, why progress?
Harsh… No just keeping the standards and the spirit of our hobby up.
Go on fire the flack, i’ve got me tin hat on!
Rather childish attitude. Someone may not want to or have the ability to go for next level licence. What will you advocate next ? If someone does not go for a HGV driving licence after 12 months passing test for a car licence it should be revoked ? Then IF they DO pass HGV they must pass PSV within another 12 months ? Amateur radio is just that a hobby for amateurs. Not a way of life. Get real.
Could not agree more with your reply Sir. Yes there are some idiots who are M6 and M3, but there are just as many if not more 20’s G and m0 stations who are idiots.
I know a very good operator with learning difficulties, who is an m6 and she struggled to pass her Foundation exam. She knows she could not pass the 20e, but you will never hear better radio procedure from anyone else no matter what their grade.
So she would have to lose her licence and for what, so the RSGB can attempt to screw more money out of her to study for an exam she could not pass and she would not attempt to do so. All that would achieve is we would lose an operator it would have been better to hang on to. If it ever happens we will lose more radio operators than we gain. Cos a lot of folk just won’t bother.
But this 12 months thing is a load of old tosh. No doubt instigated by some of the wasters with nothing better to do with their time from the rsgb, trying to earn themselves more revenue.
In case you have not guessed I am not a fan of the RSGB and for good reasons, based on my personal experience of them they are a waste of air. Whenever they have been asked for help by myself, or anyone I know it a case of sorry no money in it for us, so we are just not interested.
pssst by the way do you wanna buy a year’s subscription to radcomic.
I thought ofcom had already thrown this time based idea out the window.
Saying that on the ic-7100 group there is an m3 moaning because he cannot get out 100 watts from his radio :)
It does not matter what the dino’s have said ofcom have said no time limits and what they said is what matters not some people that would like to kill the hobby.
Richard.
Hi Richard – Correct. The idea was shelved in 2014, and the yellow box in the article confirms that. I’m surprised it’s still being discussed here and on other forums.
Hi Steve – The concept of trying to mandate Foundation licence holders to progress was an idea from Ofcom. As of 2014, there was no further discussion of this from Ofcom, and the idea didn’t make it into the new licence. So, as noted in the yellow box in the main article… no plans to force progression.
Hi .i have to say that I am a bit disappointed that I will not be allowed to purchase and use a 200 watt tranciever of the shelf.I would have thought a radio built by a main manufacturer.I know that I could operate this radio in the correct manner.
Hi Denis – The concept of trying to mandate Foundation licence holders to progress was an idea from Ofcom. As of 2014, there was no further discussion of this from Ofcom, and the idea didn’t make it into the new licence. So, as noted in the yellow box in the main article… no plans to force progression.
i totally agree with you, they all go back to the cb anyway too easy to get the licence and means nothing to them.
I am a m6 and love the ham bands i started off on cb years back in the s 80’s the reason i gave up on cb i grew up moved on ,Not all m6&m3 operators are cber’s some are and some are not .
Considering to push members on a foundation license to progress onto other exam licenses doesn’t seem right as it’s removing that persons right of choice they may be quite perfectly happy and content to remain as they are on a foundation license. They may as well scrap the exam on foundation. To help encourage new members into ham they pay a yearly fee choose a handle stick to restrictions etc job done
The discussion about changing prefix when moving from (say) england to scotland confuses me.
When I got my licence back in 1970 is was a specific requirement that you changed the prefix.
Ofcom are now saying that is not the case, so when did they change their mind?
You used to be required to sign /A while away from the home qth, but apparently that is optional now.
Seems a no-brainer that changing your prefix when operating temporarily from a different section of the UK is the right way to do things.
I notice Ofcom intend to introduce ‘clarification’ to /MM operation.
what if vessel is moored – has been /MA for donkeys years
on inland waterwaterways – has been /WM for donkeys years
seems to me that Ofcom requiring clarification on /MM is down to them losing their own plot.
I agree with comments that foundation licence should be for a limited period. After that period expires it is revoked. Because there are no Ofcom checks/enforcement on power levels people get their foundation licence, get a linear, & thats it.
I think we already have a kick in the jacksy as you so put it,
Since getting an M3 call in 2007 I have never ran more than 10 watts,I have had to put up with years of Plasma television interference so i couldn’t use my radio, After moving to a new address low and behold its been replaced by Interference by Plt, The first was eventually solved with a long drawn out replacement of the screen in the television by my very good neighbours, The Plt wasn’t solved by Ofcom as I had to accept a compromise of interference but not an S9 all over HF, Its seem that there are enough Disincentives to this hobby with Introducing Incentives to go on top.
I bought my expensive radio after considering the license structure if this
is going to change after the event it will be the last straw for me and I will just sell it and leave the hobby,
It doesn’t help either when I here people like you who seem to think they are above everything just because they are a full licensee,
Would you be so loud if they were thinking of introducing a more advanced Full License and you were going to lose your HF after the event so your radio is a waste of Money !!!!
After 36 years of being licenced a higher full licence would be great, and give me a greater sence of achevement! This game is about “the self training of the licencee in wireless communications’ you may not be aware, but portugal has adopted the 12 month foundation licence, if you sit on the fence, your off the field, simples. 5 years as a foundation holder? Crikey
There are many reasons why foundation licences holders do not progress further, firstly I don’t think it about not having the necessary skills, more often it trying to fit in the exam in what is a busy schedule, people who hold a amateur licences are often motivated people and have other hobbies and activities. Secondly for some the power levels and types of transmissions we can use can provide more than enough interest for people. For myself I currently only hold a M6 licence, but intend to take the Intermediate exam shortly, but I am quite happy with my Foundation licence, It means I really have to use my knowledge to work QRP mainly 3 watts, unlike some amateurs who run mega watts. I would point out that I only come into amateur radio after I retired, but had spent a lot of my working life playing with radio both in my work and as a SWL, so it more than likely I have a greater knowledge than a lot of Amateur Radio Licenses. Without doubt there are many other foundations operators out there like me who are happy to remain at foundation levels, working hard at there QRP Keeping up the spirit of our hobby like the old days when Amateur radio equipment was nowhere as efficient as the modern low power equipment is today.
72
Robert
M6RWG
I don’t understand your argument as you are assuming 5 years is a long time !!
When you say self train you are assuming again that I don’t self train ,that’s what I have already been doing and one example would be amongst many others, when I had the Plasma interference 80 and 40m became unusable and I got into Dxing on 20m and up, When I moved to this location Plt has given me a higher noise floor from 20m and up so now presently I use 80m and 40m, If I had been restricted to just some bands then I would have already left the hobby, The trouble with a full licensee is that they think this is a reference to your skills in life witch seems to have become a standing joke amongst many, I bet the class b who grandfathered to class a are quite!! Anyway are you still using a tuner !!!!
Tuner! No silly , all my antennas are within the range of 1.5 or less to 1, they are ALL home made, and are used for single band operation, look up nested dipoles, you may learn somthing. You have displayed an obvious defeatist attitude ” saying you would have left the hobby” I have used bands from 3cm to 160m, meteor scatter, fast scan tv, microwave ssb, and television, satellites, etc. no interference on those bands. Now if you had been restricted to 40m and 80m , try portable operation, or mobile, its great fun you know. So look beyond your horizons, the world is s big place, you cant sit in the nursery school all your life, you must progress and aspir to higher things. The Big brush is comming, and lets hope it clears out the stubborn debris in the foundation bands, that think they can sneak in under the wire, and evade the RAE. I bet you call yourself a Radio ham too! Did you know you have to take the Radio Amatures exam, and pass it to do that? Without it, you are a foundation licence holder, or intermediate licence holder, nothing more. That in its self should be the incentive to “be a radio amature” not an apprentice all you life.
Lol I can almost here the laughter around Britain and beyond, Its the Old G callsign dinosaur syndrome you have there, Thank god time is flushing out the debris from the ham bands, I know about nested dipoles thanks but I am using a Homemade Cobwebb antenna thanks, Whoops have you heard of those or made no, Of course you have you know it all NOT
A defeatist attitude hi hi, After putting up with interference for 5 years, yeah right, Good job I love my Icom7800 isn’t it :)
Ive been involved in amateur radio now for a number of years and I do have a full licence and Im proud of it.
But I don’t be little any amateurs who have an m3 or m6.
There are some amateurs who wish to stay at the current level of licence they have and are quite happy.
If people are forced to upgrade wouldn’t that drive them away from the hobby perhaps?
If something isn’t broken you should not try to fix it. Without m3’s or M6’s this hobby would be dead. They have done the training and paid their fees to pass the foundation test. Some are quite happy to stay as M3’s and M6’s and that should be their choice. If you force them to take the next level what happens if they fail do you take their licence off them straight away? If a 2E0 fails the advanced exam do you then take their licence away altogether? All these proposals will do is force people out of ham radio altogether and back onto 11 meters. A piece of paper means nothing its how you conduct yourself on the airways that counts. The trouble with ham radio is that their are to many old dinosaurs and snobs on it. We need to encourage people into the hobby not drive them out.
how can you say there should be a 1 year deadline then they have to pass the intermediate licence or lose the foundation licence,if you have paid for and passed the foundation exam how can they come in a years time and say you have no licence,its just like saying to school kids if you dont get a job within a year you have to take your exams again
i agree with you robert as a m3 myself i enjoy the challenge of getting to places on low power as it makes it more interesting rather than pumping out 100’s of watts an making it easier.
second point id like to make is not all of us work a 9 to 5 job where attending a course on a set day at a set time for 6 to 8 weeks is even possible.
looks like ofcom have changed there minds on bringing in new younger members to the hobby before it dies a death without all the new m3,m6 an 2e0,2w0 members surely then ofcom would start removing some if not most of the band allocations as there not getting used ( use it or lose it clause )
which is why they dropped the morse test to make it easier access to the hobby now there looking at forcing those new licenced members back out of the hobby because they havent progressed up the licence table.
maybe a better way to reduce the call signs would to make it compulsary to only keep one call sign as i know of a few that have started as m3 got the intermediate an then the full licences but still keep all three call signs instead of releasing the lower ones to be re-asigned to another operator who has joined or upgraded there licence.
after all they have shown commitment by taking the novice test before there allowed to transmit on anything
they have bought equipment that is by no means cheap to purchase new or second hand
it not a £30 hobby by any stretch of the imagination.
should forcing novices to progress be brought in im sure many will be forced to sell up an leave the hobby which then puts the members of the hobby back to the old G callsigns who i might add are becoming fewer every year so when an at what point do you all want the ham bands to be suddenly removed for good because no one uses them
73’s from M3ZSS
Think of it as a dead wood excercise!
Yes and your the dead wood
this a stupid idea ive been licensed since 2007 as a m3 and i have no intention of going any higher as i will get nothing from it i have always used low power and still get all over the world who needs a amp as a m3? i dont i got to russia on 5 watts using a half size g4rv and a yeasu ft 817 why would i want to use ridiculus power like 500 watts?? if they decide to force people to go up i certainly wont as nothing will be gained from it im happy as i am
i for one DONT want to progress its these old g sign that need the clearing out im very happy being a m3 and i dont want to be FORCED to go higher i do not want to waste over £400 on a radio or use over 500 watts of power obviously if people need to use stupid amounts of power they are very 10-1 and rubbish i use 5 watts and work all over i dont want to do anything against my will is it any wonder people want to leave the hobby as we have snobby old dinos who ignore the lower license people i.e. m3s all the time bit like posh speaking to poor same difference sticking noses up the only thing they should do to clear the bands is to check if people are actually operating or not if they just take away a license after a year its a waste of money some of us dont have money to throw away and not pass everyone is most likely going to go back on cb and who blames them with g callsign dinos sticking up their noses
Ditto everything comment that’s been posted with the exception of John Davies comments.. He is something else, I thought the them and us reputation of a amateur radio operator had long since passed, but obviously not, there is still the odd dinosaur about yet. Question…..why was the RAE exam phased out?.
When it comes to amateur radio qualifications nothing is straight forward. We all don’t have the privilege of a local clubs for training. My case in question, I have a 130 mile round trip to my nearest radio club, hence my self studying. I have progressed to intermediate level just by self study. I’m sure I’m not the only operator that’s in this position, for us it’s an achievement in it’s self. Sitting being taught a RAE course is one way, but we all don’t have that luxury.
OH! I failed to mention at the beginning, sitting being taught, experience I have. Having recently retired after serving 25 years in the Royal Signals as a radio and CW operator dead wood I’m not because I chose the foundation route.
73’s de
John
Good to see some positive movements on the licencing.
The m3 and m6 licences should have only VHF FM only , when up to 2E0 then be given 80M only and only a small part of that band , so as to progress then in their best interest to go up the ladder to use other bands as it was before years ago.
In many other countries being given a small part of 80M as a Novice gets them on air and makes them think a bit , constuct antennas and enjoy what they have.
There is then every incentive to progress , a hunger to learn instead of being given everything.
There are good amd bad operators in every class so lets put that aside and make our Hams all a good class.
Thanks for reading.
come on give the M3-6 a break we learn as and when there is time to do so and if we want to progress then it should be in our hands. btw my job doesnt let me get time off to go to a club. I work the back shift.4pm onward and dont finish in time to goto clubs.
> as a m3 myself i enjoy the challenge of getting to places on low power as it makes it more interesting rather than pumping out 100′s of watts an making it easier.
You do know your radio will still work on 10W when you have a full license? Just because you have a full license it doesn’t mean you have to use 400W.
> second point id like to make is not all of us work a 9 to 5 job where attending a course on a set day at a set time for 6 to 8 weeks is even possible.
One of our club members is a police crime scene investigator and works all kinds of shifts. He couldn’t do a course so instead he studied at home and did his practicals for his intermediate at one of the club nights he attended. This week he took his intermediate exam and passed it first go. There is no excuse.
> i dont want to be FORCED to go higher i do not want to waste over £400 on a radio or use over 500 watts of power
Why do you think you have to? There’s plenty of full callsigns running QRP. The more you repeat this the more stupid you make yourself look.
I think we should let RSGB and ofcom get rid of all us M3 and M6 then let’s see how long the ham shops last! Also ofcom should police the bands as the behaviour of some G stations is unbelievable. Top band on a evening is a good example how not to operate.
Yes your quite right about the Ham shops suffering without the foundation license holders, the likes of Linear Amp UK, would be a thing of the past!
I agree doltare, It’s strange how some people latch onto it’s us versus them isn’t it, Ie G call-signs being against M3’s or trying to put them down who are at the end of the day doing nothing wrong as they themselves didn’t set the licence conditions and after all are like minded individuals with the same interests as a G call-sign, How strange they must have something not quit right lol, It would be like someone who has been into flying model aeroplanes and then not speaking to a new kid that’s come to learn how to fly :) as if they are someone special Not! Anyway just like I don’t need my neighbours to live here I don’t need a know it all no nothing G to teach me anything anyway they don’t and will Never affect my hobby :)!!
Well said I’ve been on 6 years and never had any trouble. But I have herd G stations been very nasty to M3 and M6 to be fair you don’t get it from MO I think it’s just a G thing!!! RSGB needs new young blood to get new blood into the hobby. One more thing how come the new cb side bands you can use 20 watts? But a listened M3 – 6 can only have 10?
Yes I agree it needs new hams coming into the “hobby” and I haven’t personally had any trouble but I have heard lot’s that have, Who
are these idiots that think they own the hobby because they have been licensed longer, If they hassle M3’s and M6’s all they are going to accomplish is to bring the hobby into disrepute and it will become a case of well what goes around comes around !!, This might be already happening!
“I” passed my Ham radio License test and “I” bought and paid for my expensive radio and no OLDER licensed idiot will ever change that, Just give it time they are already being flushed away with time to be replaced by New Hams :)and yes I have heard that the power will be going higher for M3’s & M6’s so they wont even be able to say they are running more than 10 watts which nobody in their right mind can accuse anyone of doing.
Last night the disgusting operation of a G station towards an M3 call sign gave a fine example of the idiot tag line “progression makes a better radio ham” the elitist us and them policy seems to continue because and it will be only the few who simply cannot abide foundation licence in the hobby alienation is the name of the game the appalling operating procedures of some G stations make CB look sensible the foundation needs a kick up the jacksy utter tripe
Whats the problem in progressing through the licenses??? all foundation license holders entered into the hobby as part of a progressive licensing system….(the clue is in its title)it is however the fault of the rsgb that a more ridgid structure was not introduced ie time allowed to hold foundation licence/intermediate license instead of an almost impossable to police power restriction…and lets face it the foundation exam itself is far far too easy and allows people into a hobby that has since the dawn of radio had a filter….ie before rae the filter was the ability to make your equipment then the written rae then multiple choice etc etc…all these foundation license holders who are screaming about not progressing or not wanting to progrees you are only skeeving yourselfs and the hobby….the more you progress through the license system the more you learn about the hobby…the more you learn about the hobby the more you enjoy the hobby….the bands are a privilage not a right…and the arguments of people not being able to progress is complete bunkham….provision is made for people with disabilities and for the others who are just too thick or lazy nobody is taking radio away from you there is always cb or 446 mhz
Well thanks a lot guys I have been thinking of trying to get into Ham Radio, but reading the comments of some of the licence holders “wanting a kick up the backside and too thick to go any further”.If this is the way foundation licence holders are being abused by the the more experienced I don’t need to think any more. It seems to me if you take a test with restrictions and pass the test and stick within your restrictions
Why is that a problem. I have a full driving licence but don’t have to take an HGV test to carry on driving.
Hi Paul. I started an an M6 three years ago, and that’s certainly not my experience. I was made to feel very welcome, and that encouraged me to progress – I’m now helping to bring new M6s into the hobby through work with local clubs. It’s looking like there won’t be a “forced progression” any time soon – so have another look at becoming an M6. It’s a short course, and hopefully you’ll find it as enjoyable as I did.
hi i have read all the posts here, you should read this HAM RADIO IS A HOBBY OK ITS YOUR CHOICE YOU DO WHAT SUITS YOU NO ONE ELSE. m6 or m3 should not be forced to progress,we are licenced radio operators too. i am proud to be a m6 people should be left alone or they will leave the hobby. M6WRO
see ya…. close the door on your way out
Hi All, having read the messages above I can see a ‘them and us culture developing’. I have been licensed as an M3 since 2008 and I have remained an M3 for a number of reasons. I do not work in a 9 to 5 role and currently courses / examinations do not fit in with my busy work routine (+ Frequently On-Call). Sadly all of the courses and examinations that I have identified over recent years have conflicted with prearranged work or home commitments. If Foundation licence holders are going to be penalised for non progression in the hobby, then courses / examinations need to be made more readily available. There should also be the option to skip levels e.g. not having to enter at foundation level. John Davies comment ‘Good to see the foundation licences may get a kick in the jacksy’ is ill considered and inappropriate. For many the foundation licence serves as an excellent means of communication. in particular the senior members of our community who have built a support network of friends. Whilst I’m happy to consider Mr Davies opinions, I do find them arrogant and unnecessary in this forum.
Hi I have two intermediate licence holders near to my home qth and on 2 meters are using the 12.5 kHz splits running wide deviation processer mics and high power…..What a recipe for disaster ie SPLATTER…..I told them about it and I just got a mouth full off one of them….Can any one tell me these licence operators do they learn practise and procedures before they pass this test….One good thing which should happen is take a test every 12 month to get a full licence!!!!!
They have probably learned the trait off a full licensee and as for a mouth full perhaps they have themselves been treated like that from a full licensee, yes good idea to take the test every year including keeping your full licence !!!!!!!
I have a full motorbike licence, do I have to be forced to gain a class 1 lorry licence to be considered a “Real Driver” No I don’t so why has a mere hobby have to be forced to go that way?
Remember the old novice licence? are they not to be targeted also as well as M3/6 licence holders? If not why not?
Everyone seems to blame M3/6 ops as the main cause for bad operations on the bands, but as a swl for many decades, prior to foundation licence introduction, I have heard some shocking behavior. Maybe some M3/6 operators operate poorly but with the same token so do “Full Licence” holders.
No you dont have to take your class 1.. however you were “forced” (thats your terminology not mine) to take your cbt and pass full test within a specified time frame or lose your motorcycle entitlement …my personal experiance chatting to foundation license holders is in general quite positive and i can very very rarely criticise their operating procedures….but so what?? the point is when entering amateur radio through the progresive licensing system the idea is to progress….the deal is… you are allowed a simplistic entry into amateur radio and you are then supposed to progress (i reiterate from my previous post)THE CLUE IS IN THE TITLE…there is rapidly becoming an us and them mentality on this and other forums and it wont be long before its rampant on the air….therfore all you foundations and intermediates, its time you either progressed, so everyone, except newcomers, are all at the same level ie full license holders so there cannot be an us and them mentality or pack amatuer radio in and go back to cb or pmr
Paul, you are rather arrogant in your assumption that all Foundation and intermediate ‘licence holders’ originate from CB or PMR. Many of these ‘licensed’ individuals come from professional communication backgrounds. The way you refer to CB or PMR operators seems to indicate that you are intolerant of them and their hobby? The problem is with how the current system was introduced and structured. As I understand it the RSGB represented the Amateur community during the consultation, legislation and introduction phases. I believe this was intended to resuscitate a dying hobby!! As I have previously stated ‘For many, the foundation licence serves as an excellent means of communication, in particular the senior members of our community who have built a support network of friends’. If Foundation licence holders are going to be penalised for non-progression in the hobby, then courses / examinations need to be made more readily available. There should also be the option to skip levels e.g. not having to enter at foundation level.
Pete, i think the arrogance comes from you and your totally incorrect assumption that i (1) think all foundation/intermediate originate from cb/pmr and that (2)iam intolerant of them.i infact “cut my teeth” so to speak on cb radio many many years ago….iam however in total agreement with you on the fact that the blame for this situation in the current licensing system falls completly upon the R.S.G.B and there failings to take on board the views of the majority of amateur radio operators in a blatant bid to secure its own existence and to top up its coffers…..the atgument that amateur radio would have died without the introduction of foundation/intermediate license does not hold any water whatsoever..please provide proof of this if you can….i also agree that there should be ways to skip fl/im exams and go straight into full this again backs up what i say about R.S.G.B topping up its coffers finally pete the seniors you refare to and their network of friends could of, and still can do so on pmr/cb….i do not want to exclude anybody from a great hobby but i say again if they are too lazy or too stupid to progress they should not be on amateur radio…iam sure pete, there is no need to remind you that there is provision made for people who have disabilities….and that is only right but some m3 callsigns have been on the air for 10 years they have no intention of moving up the ladder nor have they obeyed the license condition which is as iam sure you are aware….THE SELF TRAINING AND EXPERIMENTATION IN RADIO COMMUNICATION ….No doubt some have but the majority have not, this is backed up by the fact that despite ofcom not wanting anything to do with amateur radio, it felt that the progressive licensing structure was NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE and has took a stand on this…..so pete if you are a fl/im license holder or infact any fl/im. reading this post,hear this….THE CLOCK IS TICKING///TICK TOCK TICK TOCK
Paul, you are quite right the clock is ticking. Indeed an exclusive, non inclusive hobby. Maybe those that sat the City & Guilds should have their qualification revoked if their call has not been active recently and be required to restart the licensing process from scratch. Sorry I may of misread, but I believe you wrote ‘pack amateur radio in and GO BACK to cb or pmr’. I will watch and listen with interest, but I doubt I will post anymore on this subject. I don’t like seeing rabbits caught in headlights.
Pete your right i did say “back to cb or pmr” but its irrelevent to the point i was making…i want a hobby that we all can enjoy there always has been snobery and elitism in amateur radio and i dont like that one bit….however the best way to get rid of the snobery and elitism is having a system that is equal for all…and i have to say this nobody should feel or be excluded from amateur radio fl/im license holders only have to keep up their end of the bargain and that is to progress…and both they and the hobby they are so adamant they love but cant be bothered to do anything about will be better for it by way of knowledge and helping newcomers into the hobby…as far as people who sat rae and havent used their callsign for years maybe they could do with a refresher…i have recently helped a friend through his fl and another through his im.and during the time i helped both those people i regulary took all 3 sample papers and got a high enough percentage to pass and i havent picked a book up for any exam for over 20 years so iam not sure what it would acheive…it sounds like to me its just another fl/im license holders way of saying “well if i got to do it you have to as well” which is playground stuff but i would happly take a refresher every couple of years and even take an extra advanced exam if it was to give me more privilages power bands etc….also i have to say this as well since the introduction of fl (and we are the only country in the world to have one so ridiculously easy which is why its not accepted or recoqnised in any other country on the planet) radio hams in the uk have become the laughing stock of the world…i have heard and had these discussions on dstar hf vhf uhf shf also via emails with international amateur radio union the president himself i may add is in agreement but is powerless to do anythong about it in his words “it is up to the regulatory bodies of each and every country to make the rules” but he does “sympathise” and that “the matter has been brought to his attention from amateurs from all over the world” so it could be argued that far from being the saviour of amateur radio the progressive system could actually be the final nail in the coffin of amateur radio in the uk then all that will be left is a gang of idiots abusing each other just like they do on 446/cb
I have only just seen this thread and the comment this is only a technical hobby is not what ofcom say and they are the boss.
“Page 4 of 23
Section 2
Terms, conditions and limitations
1. Purpose
1(1) The Licensee shall ensure that t
he Radio Equipment is only used:
(a) for the purpose of self-training in radio communications, including conducting technical investigations; and
(b) as a leisure activity and not for commercial purposes of any kind. ”
I am an m0 but did my rae in 1992 and my 12wpm in 1999, I explain this as for some reason people think if i’m an m0 then i went the fl, intermediate, full license which is wrong, the g stations run out in 1996 long before the fl system was up and running.
I ignore the ignorant stations that believe they are above fl and intermediate license holders, you get socially inept people in every walk of life so why would ham radio be any different, these people that think they are better than different license classes are socially inept.
I had a retard from Kent at the last skills night inform my wife that her intermediate license was a cornflake packet license, I was annoyed but then felt sorry for him as he cannot help himself being an ignorant #### and am pretty sure that he has no life to talk about so has to feel important by believing that he is some how superior to other people. He is to be pitied as are the others that have this blinkered view of their own hobby.
My wife started to learn in early January and has already done the fl and the intermediate exams and sat the full exam on 1st July but does not yet have her result, her achievments this year are nothing to do with cornflake packets and I for one am very proud of her. She has the intelligence to ignore retards like the one at the skills night.
Paul, I do understand the point you are trying to make and why you are making it. I also agree that there has always been snobbery and elitism in amateur radio. It will be interesting to see how this matter is resolved, given how long changes in legislation take in the UK and the hoops that need to be negotiated in respect of diversity, equality and human rights, not to mention our European partners take on the matter. Sadly it won’t be a quick, given that the social economic impact will also be factored in. In this case a simple change to conditions of use may not be a solution, albeit that may be the rapid fix option for UK PLC.
I also remember the days of SL, EL and the Aylesbury repeaters and the conflict generated as a result of a ‘hobby’ our international partners were shielded from this by virtue of the class A & B licence structure. For fear of starting a completely new thread, I also remember the Radio Agency actively enforcing and prosecuting under the terms of licence and Radio & Telegraphy Act. I’m not suggesting that the hobby will decay to this level again, but we should be mindful of past history when planning for the future.
Personally I would like to see radio spectrum and licensing condition enforcement taking place again. I frequently hear stations from every class, either openly or inadvertently admitting to breaching conditions.
But as previously stated if this is going to be resolved then there is a clear need for courses / examinations to be made more readily accessible and available. I do not necessarily believe that this should be via an Amateur Radio Club. At least with the City & Guilds people had two opportunities each year to sit an examination which was adjudicated by an independent body.
Having read the post from M0CLZ I believe that there is no place for individuals like this within the hobby. If we want to see a meaningful change then behaviour like that needs to be challenged!! Dick, I wish your wife well for the future and hope that she is successful in her quest for the full licence.
On reflection, I think that we should look at the positive contribution that Amateur Radio operators have made to this country. In particular those stations that monitored and reported on enemy communication activities in World War 2 and during the Falklands ‘Crisis’ (It was never declared a war). It is a fantastic hobby, but there is a real danger that it will be destroyed if attitudes are not challenged and changed.
Ok pete quite simply put PEOPLE SHOULD PROGRESS THROUGH THE PROGRESSIVE LICENSING SYSTEM is that clear enough for you? no sitting on their arses moaning and crying how unfair life is when THEY fail to live up to their end of the deal…i cannot understand how the hell you dont take this from ANY of the posts i have sent in on this subject,iam not a person to mince words so just so you know pete and anybody else who is unalbe to grasp the point GET YOUR FULL LICENSE OR GET OUT OF AMATEUR RADIO like i keep saying pete there is always cb/pmr /skype /hamsphere etc etc
Paul, I’m certainly not moaning or crying here. In-fact I’m having a chuckle about the ‘playground’ defensive stance. It is good to debate these subjects and interesting to meet such an opinionated keyboard warrior. I for one do not need advice on what options are open to me in terms of hobbies. I value your opinion, but not your rants. Paul, unfortunately until the license conditions, or indeed legislation changes you are stuck with the foundation and Intermediate levels. Is that clear enough for you, or are you the only person allowed to have opinions.
pete i dont know what rant you refare to i higlighted my point in caps..and dont think your even remotley smart enoungh to turn my words around…i am not bothered that we have a fl/im license what bothers me is fl/im are not progressing also iam not STUCK with anything being a full license holder these changes to the licensing system will not effect me and any future ones that may come into force that will affect me i will undertake BTW you have only served to demean yourself with that last sentance on your post…and like all the people who argue against progressing it serves no other purpose than to reveal the non sensical aspect of yours/their argument
Paul, thank you for your opinion on my abilities. I don’t need to turn your words round. Your position and character are quite transparent from your previous posts and clear for everyone to see. I will take this opportunity to wish you all the very best in pursuit of your hobby. The opinions of others are clearly of no interest to you. In terms of demeaning myself, I can at least claim that I didn’t need to use undesirable language in my posts. You may wish to look up the words other meanings and if the hat fits wear it.
pete you really are making yourself look a fool resorting to insults again..is that your typical m/o when you cannot force anybody into “the world according to pete? try and turn the words of the person with the oppossing view around?? you really do make me laugh
Paul, I would suggest that you read the content of my posts again. You are clearly selective about what you respond to and pay little attention to detail. I believe we live in a democracy where we have the privilege of being able to communicate, this includes amateur radio and to a degree freedom of speech.
Just one comment I would like to draw your attention to:
But as previously stated if this is going to be resolved then there is a clear need for courses / examinations to be made more readily accessible and available. I do not necessarily believe that this should be via an Amateur Radio Club. At least with the City & Guilds people had two opportunities each year to sit an examination which was adjudicated by an independent body.
Having conversed with you online, I feel the examination by an independent body is the way forward. Noting that you appear to be in the minority I will continue with amateur radio and keep trying to identify a course / examination that I’m able to attend.
One other thing that I have considered, is that you are not a licensed operator and that your intention is to stir up bad feeling within a constructive forum, on a respected web page.
Have a great evening and good DX……
Well pete you can consider your consideration wrong (more assumptions perhaps?)i have stated in previous posts my position regarding my license..i do not know how you could possably think iam somehow curtailing your freedom of speech…and i have previously stated that more has to be done as far as options and courses are concerned in regards to helping fl/im holders to progress…i completly disagree with you iam in a minority if that were the case why has ofcom got involved???? the reason is because to few fl/im holders are progressing…as far as your comment is concerned about me stirring up bad feeling etc…pathetic
Paul, you have answered your own question. You agree something needs to be done about courses, but that isn’t happening – therefore the progression has stalled and OfCom have now become involved.
Sorry pete i fail to see when i have asked a question, if you would be so kind to point out where or when i have asked a question regarding the take up of the progressive license i would be gratefull.. when have i said anything other than im/fl should progress?
Please see the copy and paste below.
i completly disagree with you iam in a minority if that were the case why has ofcom got involved????
pete your talking nonsense. yes progression has stalled, now if i were in a minority in thinking that, why would ofcom get involved??
Paul, OfCom are involved because of the stall in progression…. This is due to lack of drive… Stop thinking about it Paul, and do something to get things back on track. You appear to have all the answers… If it’s that straight forward I’m sure you can use your knowledge and skills to deliver a top class end product.
I didn’t know you worked for ofcom paul re “GET YOUR FULL LICENSE OR GET OUT OF AMATEUR RADIO” you do not run the system and luckily your kind are in a minority.
If I knew your callsign then I could ignore you on air as I do not make a habit of speaking to your kind of person as I find your negativity boring as you can see mine please do me a favour and don’t reply to one of my calls.
If you are so keen on people upgrading then run a course and help them it’s a lot more useful than your pontificating on the subject with nothing positive to add, is your real name Victor ? go on write “I don’t believe it”.
I feel sad for you with your limited outlook.
MOCLZ if you feel sad for me then its wasted,but we both know your comments of feeling “sad” are really insults based on your previous posts…there really is some selective reading going on here,but if it makes up for some sort of repressed anger then fill your boots, but it inevitably reflects on you ….and iam in a minority am i?? wanting people to learn more about the hobby and progress up the licensing ladder??? proof please….so much of a minority that ofcom have had to step in to do something about it.
i feel sad for your repressed anger
You would feel insulted it’s called projection as you feel everybody thinks the same way as you and your full of anger you assume that everyone else is.
Just a little tip “remotley smart” it’s spelt remotely smart and “unalbe to grasp” would be unable to grasp, my spelling isn’t top notch but then I don’t believe that I am better than anyone else or claim to be smart. If you wish to give the impression you are so clever maybe a spell checker ?.
You appear to think there is a problem with cb/pmr I bet your really upset they have 12 watts ssb now and with no license at all.:).
M0CLZ more selective nonsense ..save your armchair psychiatry for your friends…(it may make them think your clever) and god knows if you read my previous posts properly instead of selectively you could spend the time trying to really impress your friends (instead of me) with the world according to M0CLZ
Paul, I’m looking forward to my response. I don’t think M0CLZ would want to impress you. If I’m not mistaken, he already knows your agenda.
Seems ofcom see the world the same way I do, nothing in the new consultation about fl or intermediate so looks like ofcom are not as blinkered and you are in the minority.
A hobby that is based-upon communicating and making new friends always seems to have the opposite effect when it is discussed, especially on the internet. There is certainly a great deal of “us and them” around and also those who are happy with their Foundation (or Intermediate) licence and content to operate under those conditions. Those who don’t (and/or openly boast that they don’t) are the worry. It does sadden me a little when people (especially those who are more than able) choose not to step-up to the next rung on the licence ladder. Some, of course, cannot whether it’s due to age, mental ability or availability of local training.
But, if they’re happy with “their lot” and operating within the terms of that licence – Who are we to pick fault? Positive encouragement and exposing them to the benefits of the Advanced licence are a good start. It’s a varied hobby, plenty of bands/modes to try – and if you don’t like what you’re hearing at the time you can simply spin the VFO and listen to something else.
M0CLZ (and Mrs CLZ) came out to visit at a recent /P event – Dorothy spent some time operating the 2m station, a little nervous to start but with guidance she did a fantastic job. Now she’s more confident and hopefully will be 1st in-line to a radio next time we put a station on. Today, in fact, at Galleywood we had a young woman (mid 20s) come over and ask what we were up to – After a short chat we allowed her to send a “greetings message” on 2m with the Harlow Club – she went away quite chuffed and with the contact details of some local Clubs for Foundation training.
This “progressive licensing” is a nice idea on paper, but I think one has to look at why those at Foundation/Intermediate choose not to go further.
M0PZT I agree completly with you on all points except if fl/im license holders being happy with their lot…it is after all a system of progression which allows people a simple way of entering amateur radio as long as they progress..but most people are not and its got to the point were ofcom feel they have to do something about it, and the ability to progress is woefull, it has taken a friend of mine whom i have helped get ready for i/m license over 6 months to get on a course…he has been constantly gettin 98/100% correct answers on hamtest online but obviously needs the course for his practicals…its nice to see people progressing and enjoying the hobby but i feel if people are not able to progress for whatever reason then they should be given x amount of time to try and if they refuse or cant then like i have said in previous posts there is always cb/pmr.
ok i think this is going a bit too far now as with most topics like this i am a m3 and i have been since 2007.
im very happy with my foundation license and always operated low power if i “progressed” to advanced then it would be quite pointless to me as i dont want to use ridiculous power like 500watts etc or build my own equipment.
im going for my intermediate this year but my point is there is no point in forcing people to do something they dont want to. i dont want to feel forced into doing it i only just feel ready to go to the next level and if i fail then i wont try again and will stay as a m3 its that simple.
Hi Aron
Wish you well with the intermediate my wife used the exam secrets book, it has questions for each license class in each section and a full test for each license at the back.
She wishes she had known about it for her intermediate, but she used it for her full license (doesn’t have the result yet)and she said it was more relevant than hamtests.co.uk though she did both as had to cram everything into 1 months study.
I agree nobody should be forced it is a hobby after all and supposed to be fun.
Have Fun Richard.
I have said this before but there isn’t any need to “progress” if you don’t want to, I don’t need to “progress” from my car license to an HGV for me to “progress” Also I believe there are enough disincentives in the hobby without introducing incentives !! Ie when I first had my license I suffered with a neighbours plasma for years and eventually the screen was replaced with the good work of G3SDW but I couldn’t use 80m and 40m, when I moved away from this to a new property it was replaced with the dreaded PLT which eventually was replaced with a lower noise one but still raised the noise floor enough to say amateur radio wasn’t possible and considered at this point I may give it up, I even had some plonk say I sound like a defeatist lol, Having moved away from that and everything here was sweet for a while but now somebody near me has started to fire up another piece of junk !!
If I had been restricted during any of this in not being able to use any of the bands I most certainly would have had to give up because if you cannot use certain bands because of interference your left with no bands to use so what good is your radio, This point is often overlooked by decision makers but is very obvious to me, I believe all this junk on the market is already the silent death of amateur radio this together with Ofcom maybe restricting band etc and the silly anti newcomer old farts will finish it all off completely, I was a short wave listener for 25 years and that’s all I wanted and become an m3 in 2007 and that’s all I want now if my radio if not wiped out with interference
hi all just a quick post from me I have held my mw6 since july 2012 just over two years before that I was a short wave listener since I was 9 years old im now 60 I love the hobby but due to health problems being disabled and unfortunately now totally housebound find it very difficult to attempt the intermediate course so what future is there for me in the hobby that I love I understand the feelings of a lot of full callsigns and I would be the first to agree that band restriction is the way to go maybe foundation level should get 2 meters 70 cms 10 meters and 40 meters power regs should stay at 10 watts no time limit on foundation and intermediate holders and Ofcom should get its finger out of its bottom and start enforcing strict rules also the exams should be more available and lastly full callsigns CHILL OUT 73.pete
I don’t think you can just say you have a foundation licence for a year then you have to progress. I know people who struggled but passed thier foundation well in the end, but these people do not want to go any further and in some cases it is beyond them. Seems mighty unfair to remove an entitelement they have worked hard to achieve and lets remember what the licence is for experimentation and self learning. You don’t need to be higher than an M3 or an M6 to do this.
In my case I chose not to sit the Advanced exam. It is just so far out of date as far as I am concerned and I am convinced it has little relevance to modern operating. My Tutor was upset that I did not sit as he said I would have passed. But I could not justify the expense for something that gave me noting I wanted out of the hobby. So it was my personal choice not to progress. At least not at this time. If they ever make the licence relevant to present and future as well as the past I might reconsider it. It just strikes me as an exam for an exam sake at the moment and to drag in a regular income for the company supposedly who look after radio amateurs which in my experience they do not unless there is money to be made from doing so.
Dear Mr Davies,
If a person holds a foundation, he should not be force, to go some people are quite happy as they are,so leave them.
I get fed up with some people moaning about foundation license holders not progressing. Who cares? It not anyone else’s problem is it and frankly its quite a challenge getting decent a QSO on 10w (My best is Venezuela). Not everyone wants to mess with micro waves or 400w. In my case I work at sea, and finding a club that does a 2E0 course that fits in my work is nigh impossible. Anyway I have decided to self study and then take the exam, I’ll do the practical bit with my club. Don’t moan about M3 or M6 license holders, the more people that get licensed the better…..keep the hobby alive.
Paul you are in the minority and it’s attitudes like yours which ruins a great hobbies image. so sad.
Paul (is he even an amateur ?) and john Davies (once agin a ? on if even a licensed amateur) are good examples of the cancer in the hobby eating away at it with their small mindedness and ignorance.
I don’t beleive they are even licensed and are just a pair of trolls getting us all to bite.
I have been an M3 since 2008 and an SWL for 35 years and would like the term progression clarified as I am more than capable of taking any exam for radio they put in front of me and consider my experience in radio listening qualifies me to make a comment. Shouldn’t progression in radio operating be good grammar, no foul language, no jamming and no playing of music. A lot of which is done by high powered full licence holders who get bored with the hobby. When I took my m3 in 2008 no one told me I had to progress and I have no interest in running more power. Why do I need examinations to prove I can run a station without interference or complaints. So when does an operator stop progressing. If there is a 12 month or five year licence revoke then they can have mine back now. Will they bring a revocation rule out for full licence holders who do not progress or do they know everything? Maybe an advanced licence to take above a full licence, if they don’t pass then remove the full licence? Can someone not progress and learn about what they are interested in through books in there own time without being forced into having to take examinations on it? I could teach lots of full licence holders a lesson on good language skills and manners and good operating practices after 35 years of listening to them. Why is progression based on a so called prove your skill level when licences could be issued and then revoked for only a good reason such as swearing or jamming or playing music or causing EMI / RFI and QRM or being rude and ignorant as many hams can be. Just because you have a skill on paper it does not make you a better operator in practice and licences should be revoked on a points system where a call sign receives say 100 or another amount of points one point equals one complaint from another operator or a member of the public. The individual regardless of their licence be it foundation / intermediate / or full would then have their licence revoked or be shown the red card for a period of time until the problems could be investigated. This would make radio self policing as many hams think they are safe to do anything without reprisals and blame everything on the dreaded m3’s many of which are put off the hobby like myself by the arrogance of the know everything full licence holders who stand in car parks in yellow macks with handhelds trying to look important. Ofcom should have a database of callsigns and the points system should be put into place where people access the site and add a complaint point to a callsigns complaint box giving detailed descriptions of frequency, comments, complaint reasons. How much the hobby would improve when so many points started to appear next to call signs which had been around for a long time. Think of it similar to the feedback system on Ebay. Self policing for ham radio. Encourage people to join the hobby because it is full of gentlemen and not discourage them with rules because rules are easily broken. One more point before I get off my soap box. You can now use CEPT 26 MHZ – 27 MHZ SSB legally without any licence for as long as you like with no examinations. So these rules will have m3’s leaving in there droves and going back to the CB bands where behaviour is not much worse than ham radio these days. You can talk around the world with a radio for a tenner without having to take as much as a question about your sanity. Please will someone suggest the points system to Ofcom.
Kind Regards,
Dusgruntled with ham radio Dave.
Hi Dave,
The story about possible forced progression is now a year old. In September, Ofcom announced the proposed changes to the licence, as forced progression wasn’t a part of those proposals, so nothing to worry about.
See our story: Proposed Licence Changes for details of what’s likely to change. The public consultation (chance to comment to Ofcom) closed at the end of October.
Hi mr davies, Its been confirmed that Ofcom don’t hold your silly little views, surprise surprise :) Looks like the bristles fell out of your big brush and in turn its been used against yourself similar to being kicked up the jacksy hi hi, Never mind you can always have a moan and bore other small minded individuals on the 5mhz allocation. People with your deluded self important attitude are not welcome in the hobby as Ofcom have made clear by not holding your view, They could also see that at any ham radio shows they are just full of old farts trying to look important, Oh well as I thought I will continue to enjoy all bands with my beautiful Icom 7800, bliss
im thinking of going for my foundation licence but after reading this it has put me off,nobody is thinking of the less fortunate ones who can not afford to keep paying course fees etc my knowledge of electronics isn’t that great but iv been a long term cb’r since the eighties only now am i thinking or was thinking of moving over to ham but to short term foundation licences is ridiculous these levels are there as a choice not to be bullied so if i drive a f fiesta does that mean after a year i should buy a jaguar mmm i think not surly this will push more people to go licence less and cause more havoc i think its the wrong way to go its put my off turning to ham radio.
Hi Gareth
Don’t let the “odd” one’s put you off they are a dying breed and in a minority of selfish silly billy’s who think they work for Ofcom, My advise is to get your foundation licence and enjoy amateur radio,You will be a fully licenced amateur radio operator equal to anybody else and don’t have to go any further as Ofcom have just made clear in the consultation that they have no intention of forced “so called progression” You will enjoy all bands with 10watts and be able to communicate all around the world, A massive difference to Cb.
Ps, Its the Ignorant Odd stupid one’s to mention a few above that nobody wants in Amateur radio and you will find it a fantastic “hobby”.
Well said John Davis, as passing the very simple foundation(CB)license should not give anybody the right to use the amateur bands indefinitely, whilst blatantly lying about their output power!!
The foundation license should NOW be scrapped and M3/M6 licenses revoked, as the minimum requirement should be the old novice license (now called Intermediate) if our hobby is to revert back to amateur radio and not stay (as it is now) “GLORIFIED CB”.
Yeah byeee
How can anybody with more than one brain cell be “proud to be a m6”, as the foundation license was designed to accommodate amebas who would spend all their money upon the hobby which has now progressed to an industry.
Lol quack quack quack quack :) muppet
Clearly the last post wasn’t made by sharpest, or brightest amoeba. This article was posted in 2013… What can I say other than ‘Please QSY’
Oh, and my comments refer to the posts made at; 15:46. 15:53 and 16:17……
Lol quack quack quack quack quack :) muppet
My last post wasn’t made to pete but to 15:46 15:53 and 16:17….
As if Tony Lees even has a license of any description.
Just another no nothing troll.
Very likely.
I have passed my 2E0 now and studying my Advanced. I can see some merit in using the Foundation as a starting block which you should only be allowed to remain at for a limited time (Like a provisional) But you should be allowed to remain as a 2E or M0 once passed this being that the 2E has all the additional knowledge you need to have fun and progress to M0 if you want to get much more in depth. In essence after foundation it should be a matter of choice. As for Advanced operators labelling foundation holders as jumped up CB’ers is untrue and unfair and adds a side of negativity and elitism which ruins the hobby for some.
I don’t think you can generalize that everyone should move up from foundation. I know a couple of people who struggled with the foundation and to them the foundation was a major achievement. However at least one of these people knows she would not be able pass the intermediate.
Having said that I can not fault this ladies radio procedure and sadly she puts many intermediates and full license holders not to mention M6’s and M3’s to shame with her operating practices. Why should she be forced to give up her hobby because of red tape?
I myself am an intermediate but as my thing is qrp. I rarely use 10w and I do not need the intermediate for qrp work. Also I am sad to say I looked at the advanced and decided it was terribly our of date and it did not give me anything I really wanted in return for the commitment and expense in studying this out of date exam.
I am told I could have passed it, but I really was not interested and I am still not interested in it. Not until it is brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
I see no point in me studying redundant information. I know from experience that it is a fact the things the advanced attempts to teach, is quickly forgotten once passed anyway, by most full license holders. As it is only ever needed for the exam, and not for day to day operating.
I don’t agree Nick remaining at foundation level doesn’t do ANYONE any harm does it ! and there is absolutely no reason why they need to “progress” if they don’t wish and are very happy to have lower power, You can’t have a system that you have committed to a “hobby” and bought equipment thinking you might have to sell it all just because you don’t want to go further within it ! An advanced operator is also just an amateur and will never be any better than anybody else and if they think they are elite should be reminded that they are only “Amateurs” in a “hobby” as is displayed by many of their operating skills and manners on the bands which proves to me there is no such thing as “progression” !!
I passed my driving test 30 years ago and drove an old Scoda for 12 months and no one told me I had to take my advanced driving licence within a certain period or I would loose my licence. Nor did they say I had to swap my Scoda for a Ferrari.
I could easily pass my 2e and m0 but have no wish to take any more examinations and from what I have heard of m0 operators then I would happily sell my HF set tomorrow and go back to CB as you don’t get all this uppity snobbery we are better than you rubbish on there. The language and behaviour on CB leaves a lot to be desired but so does that on the ham bands. Infact I have already sold my VHF rig due to bad behaviour from HAM operators. No amount of technical knowledge can make a moron into a gentleman and if they took away my M3 tomorrow I would gladly sell a shack full of equipment and take up a hobby with out catty snobbery childishness and have a great holiday with all my surplus cash!
I don’t see any reason to force foundation license holders to upgrade and neither do ofcom.
My comments are mainly because know nothings who most probably don’t even have a license come on here and make accusations of people abusing their privileges with no proof (If you have proof tell ofcom) and it gets under my skin, they are just a pair of trolls and they seem to be doing a good job as the discussion is still going on long after ofcom have made the sensible decision of leaving as is.
There have always been the socialy inept in the hobby who have no life who think everybody should upgrade because they did they need pity and if possible to get a girlfriend.
I agree totally with M0CLZ and would add that all of the above critics of Foundation and Intermediate Licenses are narrow minded individuals.
Ladies / Gentlemen, at this time there aren’t any proposals to restructure the licensing system, so their opinions are dead in the water. I suspect that if the comments are made by licensed amateurs: they will be the same individuals that put carriers over people because they have nothing better to do.
Everybody is entitled to an opinion and if they feel that strongly about changing the way licenses are issued, then they should make representations to the appropriate authorities. Their negativity isn’t doing anything to promote the ‘Technical Hobby’ They are just lighting the blue touch paper and retreating to a safe distance behind their keyboards.
I would like to point out that I wasn’t being critical of those who remain at Foundation level. I do agree with Steve that the syllabus needs updating.
Nick, I also agree that the syllabus needs updating. Additionally examinations at all levels should be made available without reliance on amateur radio clubs. This would allow those that want to self study to enter the hobby without hindrance. I really can’t see why it would not be possible to run regional examination centres. Also there should be the option to enter the hobby at any level, subject to passing the relevant examination.
At the end of the day the morse code should never have been dropped from the amateur radio licence
It is a great mode and makes you use your brain unlike the m3s and m6s who have been given the Mickey Mouse lucky bag licences get off your asses and do some cw training and progress your licence
It’s a fantastic mode 3watts to work the world on hf with 262 dxcc confirmed …
I have heard m3s and m6s with signals so big there’s just no way to produce those kinds of signals without using high power I don’t care what you think but it’s so true
Why oh why do m3s and m6s say best 73s. It is not 73s ….. 73s are 21 you don’t say cheerio 21. ..
You say 73. ……
While listening the other I heard a m3 saying I need to go 10-100 and another saying qsk qsk on a repeater ….. What a joke. Come on guys and girls get your act together don’t bring cb to ham radio
It’s not needed and we don’t want it on the bands it’s so immature.
Get out of your nappies and grow up treat ham radio with respect and not not disrespect.
Use your brains and advance don’t sit on your ass and do nothing ………….
Well Chris with creeps like you on ham radio who else would even want any kind of licence you moronic troll. I wont even waste my time giving you a lengthy reply as if I thought morons.. I wont say operators like yourself were in the majority then I would sell up tomorrow and buy a cb. 10 10 good buddy.
Chris, I note with interest that you make no reference to Class B licensees,G6, G7 and G8. I have no doubt you also look down your nose at them!
A certain TV sketch by Cleese, Barker and Corbett springs to mind.
It’s worth looking at Amateur Radio in other countries.
In France the VHF only licence just requires a 15 minute 20 question Rules and Regulations exam, you need to get 75% correct.
The French equivalent of the UK Full licence is just a single exam comprising 2 papers, the 20 questions Rules and Regs paper mentioned above and a 30 minute Theory paper again with 20 question.
That’s 40 questions total to get French Full, compare what you need to do in the UK to get the same type of licence:
Foundation 26 questions in 55 minutes + practical assessments
Intermediate 45 questions in 85 minutes + practical assessments
Advanced 62 questions in 120 minutes
That’s a total of 133 question plus a mass of practicals to get the same CEPT Class 1 licence which you can get in France for just a single 40 question 45 minute exam.
By using Google translator you can get an idea of requirements in various European countries from http://youngham.qso.club/?page=novice
73 Trevor M5AKA
My last reply made the Frebch exam seen harder than it is. You have to get 65% of the exam questions correct not 74%
Dear oh dear!
One only has to visit this page & read the above comments which are rife with bitterness & resent from those who are supposed to be likeminded & have a common interest in radio, to see exactly what deters certain folk from becoming a radio amateur.
And many amateurs say that those having come from CB are ignorant?
In my experience listening across the bands for more years than i care to mention, it is sad yet very apparent that certain “experienced” operators take to openly abusing people on air for the most trivial things.
Only the other evening on 40mtrs, i heard two M3’s talking about how they got into the hobby through CB & were discussing their radios. You should have heard the abuse from a G3 in the West Midlands! My god! They were only talking about CB! The abuse was appalling & the G3 even gave out his callsign (which i suppose he thought exonerated him from any wrong doing?)
I can tell you that this was not an isolated incident. It’s incredible the amount of times you can hear similar unnecessary tirades of abuse.
Having considered putting in for my exam, i once again found myself thinking twice.
Why the hell can’t people just be content to use a radio & speak with one another?
And another thing – there are a lot of Amateurs that seem to descend onto the 11m band & remark how much more “easy going” it is than some of the other bands – but Shhh -don’t tell anyone!
There is a saying – “It’s not the class of licence but the class of operator.”
Many would do well to think on this.
73s – Enjoy the radio.
M3VQW now given up the hobby after 30 years thanks to being called thick and stupid by M0TKO and his cronies and fellow abusers and swearers on 80 meters. Havent used my equipment in months and its looking like Ebay for it.
No wonder Amatuer radio is a thing of the past!
CB or internet chat rooms have better presented people.
It does not take technical knowledge to produce a gentleman.
Hi Dave
I had people going on at me for years,I took the wrong rae and should have taken the written one, I took the qso format cw test and should have taken the random character one. Some people are only happy when they are moaning, I just ignore them.
If you know who it is record them and report to ofcom.
I wouldn’t let any amount of iq zeros drive me away, I would stay just because I knew it annoyed them it would give me an incentive to use the radio.
Richard.
Well thanks for your reply Richard but you can not beat bitches or catyness or vile comments from a whole group that just encourages all to talk about sex and insult eachother and act in a manor that shows the rest of the world that we are pure idiots whilts demining all who have lesser licences in their eyes. I shall never look at ham radio in the same way again infact I think it should be banned in the UK so that other countries might again gain some respect for our country instead of listening to a bunch of hooligans on 80 meters from most of which are m0 or g stations who should know better. Give me a shout on 11 meters ssb, you dont need a licence and there are some operators who are not hams but gentlemen..
Well said & fine business!
I really do not think you can blame the radio system for bad operators. Radio is after all a tool and any tool can be abused.
Just ignore the iq0’s and cut off their audience, becacause that it what they want. Ignore them and they lose. Bite and they win.
We are not alone in this country with IQ0’S you hear them all over the world.
Particulary when there are contest on, a time my radios stay firmly switched off as I loathe the things.
Nothing gentlemany about someone chucking several KW through their wire, knocking others out of the way to achieve their next flag in the map.
Just Ignore the prats.
Steve
Sorry but my radio shack is now a store room for boxes of shoes and I have piled boxes of shoes all over my radio equipment and I do not care if it gets trashed. The 40 ft mast will stand there as a protest just to piss off the neighbours but I will never ever mix or degrade myself with the likes of m0tko and his crony insult gang who likes to think he runs the band…..he runs everyone from ham radio and always will. No m3 in his right mind wants to spend money on a life long hobby just to listen to complete garbage. Clean up ham radio and it might live again. Qualifications and knowledge is not the answer. Maybe a personality test would be more apt? we cannot cure stupid but there are different ways of being stupid…a gentleman can be a nice gentleman although stupid but a better person than a clever moron.
Such a shame to hear that yet more are hanging up their mics. I’m sure that i don’t know the answer & yes, the personality test may be a good building block . Maybe they should introduce it for Politics? Hi Hi. It strikes me that there are bullies in all walks of life. Ordinary decent folk just don’t need this in a hobby. You either fight back or chuck it in. It’s a difficult one & that of personal preference. I must admit that having listened to 11m for some considerable time there’s nowhere near the animosity I hear on other bands. Sure, there’s the goons with high KWs from parts of Italy & Russia but generally no vindictive jamming that I’ve been party to on the other bands. Its all very sad that someone feels that threatened they need to give up
something they enjoy doing. I wish I had the answer but I don’t. Respect to all those who love radio & I hope you find whatever way you can to get enjoyment from your interest without someone ruining for you. 73s
I think it such a shame,that a hobby like this,can be subjected to such narrow-minded,elitist,arrogant people.
I dont care where you come from,what degree of learning or abilities you have….IT’S A HOBBY!!!
I have recentley just passed my intermediate exam,as required by ofcom.I am happy that in doing so,I can face further abuse from people,telling me i am not good enough,STILL,to be a part of thes elitist group.
If the truth be know,perhaps the modern licence should be all about modern comunication.I have really no interest in repairing or building my own radio,or going on air to tell everyone that my antenna is bigger/better my radio is more expensive/better and generally to look down on people that are…really bloody trying to be ackknowledged.
How can the select full licenced operators be so narrow minded,as to beleive that ‘your’ hobby is just for you? When in actual fact,if your wonderfull solid state radio broke,you couldnt fix a majority of the problems anyway.Considering most components that are surfaced mounted,can neither been seen by you nor look like a bag of liquorice alsorts.Welcome to the future guys,you are a dying breed and one day you will all be gone.And in turn,we will have our day ,and then be gone too….giving way to fibre optical gell crystal neural cpu radios.
Who cares,let us do it the way we are being told,be happy with the way you were taught and leave us newbies alone.
I passed my M3 ages ago (shame on me) and enjoy ‘playing radio’ having no inclination to advance as yet!
QRP is fun and the part of the hobby that floats my boat, l enjoy using my original FT817 with no mods or repairs so far. I’m starting to learn Morsecode so that I can drop my power even more and get satisfaction from the challenge. I use resonant antennas and a solid earth finding my antenna analyser very helpful.
This is my take on the hobby! Working long hours and being a part time musician, I’m not willing to dedicate my spare relaxation time to study for the next level yet, perhaps one day.
Hi Dougie.
That’s the great thing about the hobby – you can dip in and out, take things at your own pace, and explore when you have time. The Ofcom report came out a while back and there’s no plan to force anyone to move to the next level. If you’re happy at Foundation and finding ways to enjoy the hobby – great! Have fun with radio… that’s what it’s all about
I agree, I much prefer qrp as well. I also have an ft817 and I have no plans to progress beyond 2e0, unless and until the advanced exam is much more relevant to modern Amateur radio use.
IT’S ONLY A BLOODY HOBBY = FFS
no it is much more than that
I agree with most folks on here we are an HOBBY not a driving license authority . The powers that be want us silenced off, just so they can sell the airwaves,airtime = mobile phones . I never heard forced progression mentioned years ago when those now calling for it acquired their licenses,some of these advocates received the automatic (no test old boy network) M0 license .The only discusions these folk have on air is what tablet / microwave meal they are on next useing 400 watts to communicate a half mile. while slagging off new comers. Its an hobby USE IT BEFORE WE LOOSE IT.