Just been listening to a very interesting debate on the local repeater GB3DA this evening. The topic:
“Can a Foundation or Intermediate licence holder operate in UK territorial waters?”
The relevant part of clause of the 2015 amateur radio licence states:
2(1) The Licensee may only operate the Radio Equipment in the United Kingdom (including its territorial seas) subject to sub-clauses (a) – (c):
(a) Where this Licence is a Full Licence only, and unless it is a Full (Club) or
Temporary Licence, the Licensee may operate the Radio Equipment from a
Maritime Mobile location;
The contention on the repeater was that while only a Full licence holder can work “Maritime Mobile”, any UK licence holder can work in UK territorial seas.
The traditional understanding taught at Foundation is that operating on inland waterways is allowed at Foundation and Full, but operating from sea is reserved for Full licence holders.
Interpretation note (u) states:
“Maritime Mobile” means the Radio Equipment is located on any Vessel at Sea;
Interpretation note (ss) states:
“Vessel at Sea” means a Vessel operating on the seaward side of the low-water line
along the coastline as marked on large scale charts officially recognised by the relevant
coastal state;
Interpretation note (tt) states:
“Vessel on Inland Waters” means a Vessel operating on the landward side of the low water
line along the coastline as marked on large scale charts officially recognised by the relevant coastal state;
Argument for:
The suggestion on GB3DA was that “including its territorial seas” applies to the Licensee – the following section 2(1)(a) about /MM for Full comes after the earlier statement, so is an addition applicable to Full licence holders only
Argument against:
Maritime Mobile is clearly defined as being on a “Vessel at Sea” – So if you’re on a sea (territorial on the seaward side of the low-water line, or International), you’re Maritime Mobile. 2(a) only allows /MM at Full
Signing in territorial waters
In a vessel, it is recommended that you use a suffix. There are two choices:
- /M – Mobile (Section 17 definition: “any Vessel on Inland Waters”)
- /MM – Maritime Mobile (Section 17 definition: “any Vessel at Sea”)
Your thoughts?
We’d love to know your thoughts, in the comments section. Also, we’d appreciate your taking the short poll.
| [poll id=”6″] |
As an aside, Trevor M5AKA raises an interesting comment via Twitter: “I’d say yes they can, if on one of the ofshore forts. If floating, then they must be on a short side of low water line”
Comments appreciated!
I say no as I cannot see 11 miles away being the seaward side of the low-water line.
Even when there is a hosepipe ban lol, I’ll shut up now ;-)
This has been discussed many times on other forums and I have never seen a definitive answer given or arrived at. Certainly the territorial limit in this context is 3 miles.
I am a commercial Yachtmaster who has fallen foul of teratorial limits in Spain and France. I have raised the question of vessel nationality with the MCA. Regardless of position at sea, a vessel remains a UK vessel and subject to UK law, thus you can transmit when at sea provided you conform to the UK band plan. By convention countries recognise a teratorial limit and an area of influence. Some countries claim large teratorial limits for commercial purposes, in other locations geography restricts the limit. The USA claim an area of influence of 200NM off their southern limits. At anytime countries can change their limit, remember the cod wars.
So being in teratorial limits is vague and certainly changes with geography eg large bays. Proving you were in or not in teratorial waters when transmitting could be hard, I have photographed the GPS and time to proved a vessel had been taken out of teratorial waters. Within a nations teratorial limits vessels fly a curtesy flag signifying that they accept that nations laws, however all you have to do is take the flag down and UK law applies, however you will be asked to leave and other complications will occur. A vessel is at sea whenever it is in tidal waters and not secured to the dock or sea floor(at anchor). Using the low water mark just defines the maximum amount of land and can be determined on a chart, this allows you to transmit from the beach. Lastly transmissions from a vessel may only be made with the permission of the master of the vessel. For what it’s worth I would only grant permission to full licence holders on the basis that it would avoid me the master being in default of my maritime radio licence.
Firstly there should be no doubt that /MM is only for Full.
Secondly its time correct a number of other incorrect comments…
>Certainly the territorial limit in this context is 3 miles.
WRONG – it is 12nm (or less if close to France/Ireland) as per the State UNCLOS filing [3m is obsolete]
>A vessel is at sea whenever it is in tidal waters
WRONG – Example Thames Estuary may be tidal but it is legally internal waters – (so /M, not /MM)
>Regardless of position at sea… you can transmit when at sea provided you conform to the UK band plan
NOT ALWAYS – See clause 9(5) – and that’s is precisely why the term ‘territorial seas’ was added
Once you are outside the 12nm territorial limit the UK schedule is overrriden by the ITU Regional schedule
Its probably a good idea that in the event of not knowing whether as an operator transmitting is legal or not then don’t.
I am commercial fisherman and licenced foundation licenced holder from my understanding of the licence conditions on foundation licence and intermediate licence
its that foundation and intermediate licence may only operate above the low water line and on inland waters interestingly tidal waters can reach many miles inland
Also I think their may be confusion regarding uk internal waters and inland waters.
Also I note their is no references in the syllabuses for foundation licence and intermediate licence regarding the silence periods relating to maritime radio stations and vessels as transmitions from amateur and other station
could theoretically attenuate a weak signal of a vessel transmitting a distress call if they where very close to a RX station including /m mobile stations shore aide on quays or harbour areas.
I think their is confusion regarding internal waters and inland waters
UK Internal waters pdf doc;-
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447200/UK_TS_2015_A4.pdf
From my understanding of the licencing conditions foundation and intermediate licence holders may not operate /m beyond the low water mark this includes UK internal waters as indicated in the admiralty chart.
please correct me if I am wrong
Many thanks
Ian
My understanding of the practicality of it is this:
You are ok for /m if you are within the confines of an estuary. IE you have land port and starboard. Irrespective of whether it is a tidal estuary etc.
So if you are on the Thames off Southend you would be fine. As hams work on the understanding of non interference (breakthrough whatever) then it is expected as a mater of course that we are aware of the possibility of Mayday/Pan calls and are operating in a way that would block them.
I think that is an answer to your question. Apologies if I have missed the gist of it.
Murry is correct and if your not in charge of the vessel you need to seek permission to operate and if ordered to stop transmitting from the persons in charge of the vessel you must comply
To G6JYB,
Murray, re your comment 2/7/15 above are you sure about the position regarding the tidal Thames, if so where does the “international” part of the estuary begin, and what about the Medway? Does this also apply to the Severn, Firth of Forth and numerous other estuarys?
Geoff
Reference to Tidal Waters is a red herring. It was mentioned in amateur licences in the last century but is irrelevant in the modern era.
Foundation holders are permitted to operate from a Vessel in Inland or Internal waters. The PDF quoted above shows Internal waters in dark blue they extend quite a way out into the sea.
If when sailing in UK Internal Waters you wish to add an entirely optional Suffix to your call sign, for a bit of fun, then you should use the /M Suffix.
With regards to the Thames, Foundation holder can operate on Vessels right out to a line drawn between Harwich in Essex and North Foreland, Margate, Kent.
Ian, wondered about Silent Periods. Ofcom does not impose any restriction regarding these in the Amateur Licence. The Captain of a Vessel is of course free to impose any restriction she wishes on the operation of transmitters.
M5AKA Thanks for your comments much appreciated
yes the silence periods are very important and should be observed if at sea near vessels and remote coastguard shore based repeaters and listing stations.
I have only once had to put a pan pan out that was during the silence period for a military jet that had a flame out My boat was a considerable distance out from any coast guard station and had great difficulty making a contact with the coastguard on marine VHF I did not have a marine HF set at the time.
Should the transmission have being attenuated it may not have being heard and the Jet came down in the sea things could have being a lot worse.
The jet made a safe emergency landing at Machrahanish airport
I think all license holders be aware of the silence period on marine radio and its importance though Ofcom does not impose any restriction.
Many thanks
Ian
Operating at sea in Territorial waters is covered by sections 2.11 to 2.15 of the Ofcom Guidance for Licensees the latest edition of which was published on 15th October 2018.
Section 2.14 Holders of a Foundation or Intermediate Licence may use their Radio Equipment beyond
the baseline but are limited to the extent of UK territorial seas. Holders of the Full Licence
are not restricted to the extent of UK territorial seas.
Thank you for pointing out the ofcom guidance 15th October 2018. I like kayaking and I now know I can take my radio on a Foundation license along the UK coastline.